Saturday, January 19, 2008

Far-right Dutch MP Geert Wilders is going to present his anti-Koran movie next week (video)

From the Dutch News show NOVA (video with English subtitles; part of the video is in the English language):



The Dutch government is getting prepared for the possible fallout of the anti-Koran movie by Dutch MP Geert Wilders, that will likely be shown somewhere in the Netherlands next week. All Dutch ministers involved with the possible fallout have discussed the issue with the National Terrorism Coordinator Tjibbe Joustra.

The ministers explained that the movie can't be censored, but stress that the movie is not supported by the dutch population or its government. If Wilders finds a hall prepared to play the movie, then it will be shown next Friday.

The gist of the movie will be something like this:
Wilders: “With the help of existing images I want to show that the Koran is far more violent than all other holy books.

"It's a fascist book, because it inspires people all over the world to the most barbaric deeds, which are contrary to all our laws and values we believe in."

A Dutch branch of the Arabic European League will present a counter-movie on the very same day. "I ask all Muslim leader to be part of this political debate and to be assertive."

The Netherlands is on high alert because of the reactions of the international Muslim community after the Danish Cartoons appeared in a newspaper in 2006. The grand mufti of Syria spoke a few days ago at the European Parliament:

“I ask the Dutch authorities to do something to prevent these kind of provocations of the feelings of one and a half billion Muslims. I also ask from the Dutch Muslims to be wise and to dialogue with those who want to burn their holy book. These kind of cases ask for wisdom, and not for retaliatory measures."

The video includes an interview with Flemming Rose, the Danish journalist who organized the Mohamed cartoon competition, which later on spawned the infamous riots. He's been asked how this upcoming movie will be received in the Islamic community.
- Wikipedia: Geert Wilders
- Wikipedia: Nova
- Wikipedia: Dutch Government
- Nova's website(in Dutch) | original broadcast (mov)

18 comments:

leftdog said...

Erik - this story comes at the same time that Ezra Levant is in the middle of his Human Rights Commission hearings on the cartoons he published.

It is SO nice to see you again! Your readers missed you!

Erik said...

Thanks Buckdog, sorry for not getting back to you earlier. Many personal things going on in my life right now.

E.

Dr.Dawg said...

Erik,

Does this count as hate speech? (Following the discussion at my place.) Wilders is a neo-Nazi.

Best for 2008, by the way.

Erik said...

Does this count as hate speech? Wilders is a neo-Nazi.

no it doesn't.

Dag said...

I'm lost here. What is "far-right"?

My guess, and that's all I have to go on if there's no definition or argument here, is that it would be a position a Leftist really really doesn't like rather than one he simple really doesn't like.

But what, then is a Left position? I guess, again, that it would be anything that violates the group-think of "Progressives".

What part of the Koran have you read and agreed with that puts you at odds with Wilders? Do you have an informed critique of Islam or are you simply parroting the cliches of the usual suspects who clamour against Wilders and those who know the details of Islam? What exactly do you know about Islam? I don't care about all religions being bad, I don't care about your happy Muslim neighbour, I don't care about Yanqui imperialism driving desperate Ph.D.s to commit mass murder. I'd like to know what you know about Islam that Wilders has wrong.

Please feel free to follow up at your leisure.

Best regards, Dag Walker,
Vancouver,B.C.

Erik said...

Dag said: I'm lost here. What is "far-right"?

Wikipedia has a fair description:

"What is Far Right?"


I'd like to add that the title is not so much MY view of Geert Wilders, but more about how he's been viewed by the international community.

Dag said: What part of the Koran have you read and agreed with that puts you at odds with Wilders?

Dag, this posting is not one of my opinion pieces. I just recited what was said in the video here (please watch for yourself), nothing more, nothing less.

For my personal opinion; I somewhat agree with Wilders that the Islam seems to be intolerant of other views/criticism on Islam. There's plenty of evidence around for that; just look around.

Don't forget; Wilders is playing hardball here (he knows that too), insulting many people on his path, all for political gains in The Netherlands; there are plenty of people in Holland feel that "the tsunami of Islamicization is coming to Europe".

According to him, some of the Muslim traditions seem to conflict with some of the Western values (such as the legality of "free speech" in Western societies + illegality of "speech that incites violence", which can be read into some of the verses of the Koran)

I'm not sure if addressing those cultural difference in this manner is necessary, but I do think Wilders' claims are worthy of debate.

Does it make more sense now?

Dag said...

Erik, thank you for your prompt responses to my hasty questions.

I understand that you are responding to a case in the Netherlands as it is rather than as a partisan calling Wilders a neo-Nazi, and that you do not see his efforts as hate-speech. It was that, "neo-Nazi", that had me particularly piqued. But it is no great conflation to write "far right" and Nazi/neo-Nazi. It is there that I ask what is "far Right'? I can do far better than Wikipedia, but thanks for the link. There is always something useful to glean.

My concern remains, though, in writing of Wilders as a "far-right" politico. I hope I'm not simply quibbling. It seems to me that without a clear statement of what that means it will be easy for you readers to assume that Wilders must be a Nazi of some description, and that you endorse that idea. I asked, "How do you define far right?" I'm willing and perhaps at ease with the description of Wilders as far-right if we have a clear sense of what that means, meaning we do not simply dismiss the man as a neo-Nazi. If he is, then that is something altogether different.

My main concern is to ask what people actually know about Islam as it is. If I see people writing about Islam, I feel a need to ask them to show their depth of understanding, in which case I might learn more than I know or I might show what the writer does not, and his audience too, perhaps.

I gather that there will be a furious back-lash against any convenient target should Wilder's film show in public. If that's the case, then it might well fall on the "far rightist" to take the blame for whatever violence there is rather than for a clear understanding of the nature of Islam as the catalyst for the violence.

I, perhaps, might be blames as a "far-rightist" if there is violence due to Wilder's film showing. I don't like that, nor do I like the idea of being lumped with neo-Nazis, as is often the case when people don't understand the point they think they make. And further, it hurts the cause of Western democracy to misunderstand the nature of Islam and the history and nature of Fascism. If one confuses the issue, one might well find oneself defending the indefensible simply from ignorance.

In sum, I hope that your readers can see that Wilder's efforts are indeed provocative and hostile toward Islam; that he is very much a rightwing politician; and that he is not, simply because of that, a neo-Nazi or a racist. To confuse that might lead to aligning oneself with anti-democratic forces who try to pass off such nonsense as said Maxime Verhagen, the Foreign Minister: 'It is difficult to anticipate the content of the film, but freedom of expression doesn't mean the right to offend.'

I thank you for your patience on this topic.

Dag.a

Erik said...

Hello Dag,

I apologize for confusing you; I never intended to imply that I think that Wilders is a neo-nazi; those were the words (and perhaps the opinion of) Dr.Dawg.

I don't think calling someone a neo-nazi counts up to hate-speech; that solely was the reason I answered: no.

we do not simply dismiss [Wilders] as a neo-Nazi.

Neither do I.

In sum, I hope that your readers can see that Wilder's efforts are indeed provocative and hostile toward Islam; that he is very much a rightwing politician; and that he is not, simply because of that, a neo-Nazi or a racist.

I don't think Wilders has ever been "caught" on racial slurs, so I agree with you here.

He dismisses Islam as being compatible with Western values and believes, and IMHO there's nothing wrong with that. The freedom of religion includes the right to dismiss the validity of one or the other religion, or all off them together.

Thanks for contributing, God bless.

Dr. HAN said...

Commenting on anybody's religion while not knowing enough about it creates trouble. It is indeed one's right to accept or reject any religion but insulting any religion is not freedom of choice. Clash of civil values currently prevailing is islamic societies is considered values given by Holy Koran. Please review teachings of Koran yourself and see if those values are for one man, group or for mankind. You will be surprised and surrender to the truth embedded in ti. Blame muslims for not practicing true Islam but before blaming Koran read it once. Truth prevails. God Bless you.

Anonymous said...

we do not simply dismiss [Wilders] as a neo-Nazi

this is not true. Neo_nazies are those who try to ride on the wrong boat. Wilders is brave person and admire him very much. You and Your Koran said that Al Nabee Yee Al OOmee yee.

Here follows not quotation but chapters:

1. Surut Al nass
qool aa aoodoo be rabinnas

2, Al Falaq qool aa aoodoo be rabbil falaq

3. al Ikhlas Qool Howa Allahu Ahhud

4. al Masad Thubut Abee Laha bin

5. al Nassr Eidha Ja aaka Nass rul Allali

6. al Kawthar Inna AA ttainak AL Kawthair

7. al maooun

8. Quraish

9. alfeel alam tara kaifa fa aala

at least if you read and imagine all the above nice chapters with the execption of no. 3; you will find out that all the 8 are threatening and holding Grudges. Kuraan is F.O.S. Sorry! Yes indeed nobody can excercise their religion on others. Christianity and Judaism will prevail and Islam and Arabs will loose. Can you Imagine that in chapter 8 of the Qoraan he hated his own family i.e. his uncle. How can I trust a person who hates his own family. this is an enough proof for all the 8 billions people to think about it. I do not trust Iran, For IRaq all mass distruction materials to Iran. That is my feeling and we must protect all christians who fight for freeom not for their country but trying to help others. Becarefull and we cannot trust Must_lims and their Koraan. I know the Koraan in my heart but I do not like it. It is FOS

GBA, IGWT Peace upon Israeel.

Anonymous said...

Hello,

First let me introduce myself im a man from the netherlands. let me explain what far right means. in countries such as holland far right is something like u get what you have worked for. so ecnomical for allot of people better on the opposite u got left those are the parties that focus more on growing as a union so better social secureties. anyway you cant imagine how terrible bad it is in holland. with muslim people and dutch people. most of them came here in the sixties when dutch people where feeling to good to do stuff like cleaning and working in a factory. nothing wrong at that moment but then they got childeren and those children where getting a dutch passport and a turkish one for example. well we dont got much murders as like in the states but somehow muslims where getting in the news as they where involved with some incidents. so people where getting more and more hate agains those people and not just hate some where a bit affraid because they where painted like people with loose hands. dutch people dont like the threath and that's how Geert wilders gets his extreme ideas. and on dutch schools it goes further than that allot of fights against dutch people and muslim people not for their religion but just because dutch children and young infants want to stay in charge of holland and dont tolerate foreign people anymore. and i thnik somehow that this thing between people from the netherlands and muslims people or people that look arabic is going to escalade. im 18 years old and have friends who feel so much hate against arabic people becasue they are terrified. And young infants where the people who where voting on geert wilders with the elactions. i hope i made it a bit clear and sorry for my terrible english :P

Farooq said...

I have very carefully observed the basics of many religions and come to the conclusion that despite several differences in beliefs and thoughts, almost every religion in this world teaches good things, concern and respect for people and society as a whole. Those who humiliate any religion of this world are arousing brutality among the people. Such people are sinners and are even not the good followers of their own religion as well, because their religions also does not teach and allow such things. Can any body ask the makers of such movie and cartoons that: “have they ever read or understood their own religion ever???”
From: Farooq Khan

Erik said...

"Those who humiliate any religion of this world are arousing brutality among the people."

That's putting this issue on its head. If religion is supposedly spreading all this "good" then why can't it be criticized without brutal response? Isn't humiliation, like beauty, in the eye of the beholder.

And who exactly is going to decide what is acceptable, a rabbi, a priest, or some kind of dictator?

The fact is that almost no religion has been able to stop brutality (contrary to your religion=good "believe"), on the contrary.

This is to show that only secular rule combined with a democratic system will bring human/equal rights: it is needed ABOVE all else, which apparently is hard to understand for those indoctrinated by religious bigotry.

If you really had studied all religions, farooq, you would have come to a whole other conclusion.

Perhaps it's not too late. Start here: Criticism of Religion

Thank you, and good luck!

Anonymous said...

I have just read, in a recent article at bbc.com, that Dutch MP Geert Wilder is about to show this new and highly controversial film. In my opinion, the radical beliefs of Islam are much more controversial than this informative and educational film about the Koran. If we look at what the Koran says about how people should live and treat women and children, etc, then those who read that would be in utter shock. I truly believe that this film should be highly credited and viewed as educational.

Farooq said...

Thanks Erik for informing the meaning of criticism! but there is a difference between criticism and humiliation!Its not "what u do", but "how you do" matters alot.

"Little knowledge is dangerous thing” and same applies for those who don’t have enough and in-depth knowledge about Islam. Such people are just limited to the extent and believe whatsoever negative picture their media or literature portrays about Islam. Those who have misconceptions about Islam should read it carefully with open mind, from reliable sources, instead of “moving in circles” and criticizing just for the sake of criticism. Many Muslim Scholars have clarified the Misconceptions of Non Muslims about Islam and among one is Dr. Zakir Naik. Those who are open minded can clarify their minds and read. One link is http://www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm

Anonymous said...

Hiiii! just ask " the wild creature" wilder about the reasons that push its " wild brain" to think of such racial and backward deeds! i advice him to rather look after his ' savage nature" !

aurore said...

the almighty Allah says in many of the Coran's verses that none could stop Allah's LIGHT AND TRUTH..I think all these attempts to corrupt the image of Islam imanate from peoples ignorance and dark spirits...why don't they focus on showing all those " NONESENSES" that are narrated in their BIBLE...stories that no " logic" might accept ! CORAN instead is full of mystries and miracles ..this is the reality that enourages thousands of people all around the world to embrace Islam every day! it's really worthy to discover it !

Razika said...

Peace Erik ! would you please tell me how do Canadian people see all these attempts made by some Dutch politicians to grable the image of Islam? what must be exatly their objectives by such ill-considered acts? thank to reply

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